Curse

Divineshadows · Jul 11, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

In order for a PvE char to match this, that character has to capture every elite and buy every single skill and buy expensive and overpriced mods if they want to even come close to the versatility in skills that a PvP char has.

This is unfair.

/signed
I really hate forking over money for an overpriced +30 health mod that is free for the PvP character that has it unlocked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

On the same note, PvE characters have access to a bigger weapon pool, more weapon slots, and the ability to swap armors while PvP chars do not.

This is also unfair.

I do not view it as unfair, but this is the heart of the issue. The fact that a PvE character has competitive advantages over a PvP character promotes PvE grind. Were this not the case, I would never play PvE again. Quite frankly, this sucks as it promotes even more grind to accumulate the necessary in game gold for expensive weapon mods that are available freely to a PvP character (see above) or expensive special items that are only available through PvE. It already takes time to get a fully unlocked account through PvP faction, and this is all the grind that should be necessary to be top tier competitive (aside from working toward being a skilled team player).

Undivine · Jul 12, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Has anyone ever heard of Rune: Halls of Valhalla? That is an example of a PvP-only RPG. Guild Wars is that and more, and they draw a PvE crowd and a PvP crowd.

Lyra wants the two to come together. I don't really PvP at all, and I say there's little wrong with them being apart. Someone who only enjoys PvP is not going to want to play PvE just so they have equal footing. In fact, that is what the whole kafuffle was in the beginning when there was no such thing as Balthazar faction and anyone who wanted to PvP had to suffer through the campagns. The ability to make a PvP-only character right off the bat is a fully implimented and fully supported feature. If they have a disadvantage, then what is the point of having that feature in the first place? Truely competitive people, of the type who only play PvP, would not want such a disadvantage, and if they have to go through the entire PvE campagn which bores them they are not going to stay with the game. There are other PvP games out there, after all.

PvE is not there for the sole purpose of supporting PvP either. It is not a means to an end; it is a purpose in itself. I like playing PvE. That is why I play it. That is why many people play it. One shouldn't think of PvP characters as a free ride because PvE is simply what we do to pass the time. PvE characters should have no advantage over PvP characters. The "work" they put into their character is the reward itself. If you don't like playing it, you shouldn't be forced to do so just to get to the game you do like playing. This is a video game after all, not work.

Those of you who say PvEers should be rewarded for their "work" are missing the fact that we already get rewarded. We get our fancy-looking armour, our titles, our weapons, etc. But if we get a PvP advantage for our PvE efforts, then that is the same concept as WoW or EQ or all those other MMORPGs which grant advantages based on the time a person has put into a character. ANet has openly and frequently put down this concept and claimed that their game is different in this respect.

As for whether or not this game is an RPG, that doesn't have any relevancy. Nobody should care under what catagory it falls. It's a game. Do you like it or not? RPG is a rather broad title these days anyways.

And just because people will always find things to complain about doesn't mean every complaint should be ignored.

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Jul 12, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

I like the first and second options of Locking PvE inventory and Expanding weapon options.
PvP chars can't get the nolani wand or any of those ascalon collector or quest reward weapons without playing the PvE part of the game.

The truth itself · Jul 12, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Anyone who doesn't support this idea is just, not getting the general idea of the game.

SKILL > TIME SPENT

Even if it's a very minimal advantage, such as changing armor in-battle.

Imagine changing to a +10 AL vs. melee whenever you meet a warrior heavy team.
And when you don't, put on the tatoo armor for the tiny bit of extra energy.

That was a good example of an unfair advantage, same applies for changing armor with a sup rune for one with a minor in-battle.

/signed for first idea, locking inventory is a great idea.

Don't know about your second idea, IMO, it's not needed.

Also, whoever used the "PvP characters can use the inventory as well" argument, it's flawed, because it assumes that you have farmed items to place in the storage.

Thallandor · Jul 12, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

/unsigned

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtman

Off topic:
I do not know why you add personalize attacks in your posts on this forum, and I honestly do not care why you do, but being narrow minded and rude is not a good reason. After reading several of your posts on this forum, you sound like a fanboy or fangirl, which has to use bold and caps against every thing you do not agree with and attack the poster, just because you disagree with them or think they are off topic. For a second, I thought I had posted something in the PS or Xbox forums. Just a suggestion, try to avoid using frequent caps and bold. You will be taken more seriously if you avoid doing so.

/vote for closure since OP topic and responses are potential flamebait and trolling respectively.

Ventius Hozza · Jul 12, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

Anyone who doesn't support this idea is just, not getting the general idea of the game.

It's not us that isn't getting the idea of the game, we didn't make it, merely playing the game. ANet made the game, they designed how it would work, they came up with the concept, they came up with the vision of how they wanted the game to be played, for a year now it has been like this... if ANet didn't think they were getting the best out of the concept, why haven't they changed it?

/notsign again
/vote for closure

Big_L · Jul 12, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ventius Hozza

It's not us that isn't getting the idea of the game, we didn't make it, merely playing the game. ANet made the game, they designed how it would work, they came up with the concept, they came up with the vision of how they wanted the game to be played, for a year now it has been like this... if ANet didn't think they were getting the best out of the concept, why haven't they changed it?

/notsign again
/vote for closure

As stated in the first post: this thread is partially in reaction to Izzy's comments on WoC(he answered a ton of questions and overall did awesome job clearing some things up imo).

Anyway, he recognized the fact that no one should feel they need to go through creating a PvE character in order to be competetive in PvP. He talked about expanding the PvP creation screen and his thoughts on armor swapping in battle. So....its obviously something recognized as an issue and is in the process of being changed/corrected. This is a suggestion thread offering suggestions on how to do this. I dont see the problem.

Also, the whole inventory lock idea should be on both PvP and PvE created characters. PvP chars could still swap runes, extra items that would not need to be customized...you get my point. Like I said before, I dont particularly care whether its changed so that the PvP creation screen covers every current advantage of having a PvE char, or if the PvE char is limited as such to operate like a PvP char in battle (or any combination of the two). All I would like to see is the two to be equal.

RotteN · Jul 12, 2006, 01:10 PM // 13:10

not signed

people invest time and effort in a pve character just to be able to get those few minor advantages. Stop using the "skill > time spent" thing to support this claim, if you don't play well, switching armors ain't realy gonna make any difference at all. It's a minor advantage, will always be a minor advantage, and it's the only thing that gives me something to work for in pve. so i want it to stay that way

shadowfell · Jul 12, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuildWarsPenguin
I like the first and second options of Locking PvE inventory and Expanding weapon options.
PvP chars can't get the nolani wand or any of those ascalon collector or quest reward weapons without playing the PvE part of the game.

Untrue, Buy it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

it's you who doesn't get it

When people are talking about locking inventory screens they mean on the actual pvp field - as in meaning you only have access to the weapons/focus/shield combinations set up in your weapon slots, and you only have access to the armor you are wearing.

With the inventories being open it allows PVE characters to swap armors depending on what they are facing, it's not a huge advantage or anything, but it's there.

I get it just fine, trust me, and the idea is not viable.. Especially since pvp characters can also have these weapons, shields, etc in their inventories to swap to. So you don't have the armors? Oh well. You can have the runes however. PVE to get the armor selection and stop whining about not having them. PvP has ruined PvE enjoyment with the nerfing of skills, I think that is enough of the complaining, thanks...also

/Signed for topic lock, This is becoming a flame fest.

/Unsigned for inventory lock, ridiculous.

Chooby · Jul 12, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

/sign

Izzy made a very important comment on WoC this week that will quiet some people down, he said something along the lines of "A PvE characters main advantage in PvP should be that they get slightly better looking armor and weapons, they should not gain an advantage over PvP characters" and that is true, why should PvE characters get an advantage? Because you can play the game for a long time? Because you can farm your ass off for gold, buy all the special items? Why else would ANet have added the +5 weapons to PvP? Simply because they were giving the PvE characters an unfair advantage. You will find alot of the people whinging over the idea of "No armor swapping in PvP" are people who farmed hours on end to get those armors, because they wanted to have an UNFAIR yes UNFAIR advantage over their competition. Whatever small advantage it is, it is STILL an advantage.

Quote:

PvP has ruined PvE enjoyment with the nerfing of skills, I think that is enough of the complaining, thanks...also

PvE has nerfed some PvP skills in return, so you can stop complaining also. Look at the name of the game your playing, its called "Guild Wars", and you can war with other guilds and its a form on PVP, meaning that PvP is more important to ANet than PvE, and I have to think it will always be this way.

shadowfell · Jul 12, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chooby

PvE has nerfed some PvP skills in return, so you can stop complaining also. Look at the name of the game your playing, its called "Guild Wars", and you can war with other guilds and its a form on PVP, meaning that PvP is more important to ANet than PvE, and I have to think it will always be this way.

*yawn* I think this entire thread has turned to rubbish.. I suppose while the pvp'rs are grinding for faction to unlock all of their elite skills and weapons mods, I shall go buy a new 15k armor instead. Wait, unless of course, magically, pvp'rs are not forced to grind for their skills, therefore, grinding in some way, for something.

Face it, in the end, every single person who plays this game is forced to grind for everything they need, unless of course, dear sirs and ladies, your iway and fc spike farming have earned you magical skill unlocks of frequency at a faster rate than normal people...

You see, Chooby, I am not complaining.. In fact, I'm accepting of the way it is now and want it to stay the way it is. Lyra is one of the ones who keep pushing for pvp and pve to become identical and closer together, and this has been going on for some time. I only see a couple of complainers here, and it isn't any of the /not signed.

Chooby · Jul 12, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Well, let me just ask you one question

How much will it ACTUALLY affect you if they do implement a system so PvE characters couldn't armor swap?

shadowfell · Jul 12, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chooby

Well, let me just ask you one question

How much will it ACTUALLY affect you if they do implement a system so PvE characters couldn't armor swap?

I pvp daily, try to anyhow, between halls and gvg, I am active enough, and becoming more so the more we win. I use my pve characters, and I have a pvp slot. I would say, it would affect me enough!

lyra_song · Jul 12, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Untrue, Buy it.

With what? Balthazar faction?! o.O;

PvP characters can only make gold if they win HoH and sell their drops. I think we all know that, that is not a viable source of income unless you're really a top level player. But the top level players will be using PVE chars because they can armor swap and have access to more weapons like green shields with mods that dont exist as PvP weapons ( Reduction of blindness FTW~ lol ).

I understand that you want that advantage to stay for PvE, but i severely and adamantly disagree with you.

milan · Jul 12, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

simple, prevent pve characters from entering pvp. Problem solved, want to pvp create a pvp character, want to pve, create a pve character.

Big_L · Jul 12, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Please relax.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Especially since pvp characters can also have these weapons, shields, etc in their inventories to swap to. So you don't have the armors?

I already addressed this. Again, PvP characters cannot use weapons from storage as it requires customization in order to be able to compete. The whole idea is to prevent the concept of being forced to extensively "grind" in pve to be competetive in pvp. Even if PvP chars could customize/reroll and use the same weapons/armor, you are still forcing them to obtain these items through PvE. It just doesn't make any sense.

No one is complaining. I think many of the people here are both PvP and PvE oriented and would simply like a level playing field for all. Izzy and Anet seem to agree, so we are discussing ways to achieve this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

Stop using the "skill > time spent" thing to support this claim

This is a major game concept Guild Wars was built around. Its the reason this game is different than WoW and isn't called Grindfest Wars. Anything that supports grind/time spent as opposed to skill, creates a problem.

Ventius Hozza · Jul 12, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chooby

Well, let me just ask you one question

How much will it ACTUALLY affect you if they do implement a system so PvE characters couldn't armor swap?

I for one, quite like wearing my xmas or dragon hat for a bit in PvP, just for kicks, you know?

And this is a two way issue here, you imply that it won't affect us (the /notsigners) too much, so why should it affect you too much if it stays the way it is?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

With what? Balthazar faction?! o.O;

PvP characters can only make gold if they win HoH and sell their drops. I think we all know that, that is not a viable source of income unless you're really a top level player. But the top level players will be using PVE chars because they can armor swap and have access to more weapons like green shields with mods that dont exist as PvP weapons ( Reduction of blindness FTW~ lol ).

I understand that you want that advantage to stay for PvE, but i severely and adamantly disagree with you.

I play PvP daily for hours on end, much more than I PvE. I also happen to have 400k hovering in my storage... and only about 50k possibly in my entire life have I ever earned through sigils, the rest are given away or used. Now, everyone has a PvE character and that is almost absolute. What do "lazy" PvP players need to buy with the money that they claim they don't have? Maybe they could spend 5k on a spitter, or 6k on a runic shield. The rest comes out of the endless supply of money which is called the PvP creation screen.

Stockholm · Jul 12, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Simple solution to it.
PvE toon steps in to PvP arena= bam... 1.5k armor goes on automatic, greens are locked, nerfed or special (non pvp weps)looked,
There you are a PvP toon on level playing field.
All weapons have the basic mod's availeble to pvp only toons.

lyra_song · Jul 12, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

simple, prevent pve characters from entering pvp. Problem solved, want to pvp create a pvp character, want to pve, create a pve character.

Ouch ouch ouch. I dont think thats a viable option at all! T_T

PvE characters should be allowed and welcomed to compete in PvP. We worked on our fancy smancy armors and really cool weapon skins, we should be allowed to flaunt it in observer mode. nya~ :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Simple solution to it.
PvE toon steps in to PvP arena= bam... 1.5k armor goes on automatic, greens are locked, nerfed or special (non pvp weps)looked,
There you are a PvP toon on level playing field.
All weapons have the basic mod's availeble to pvp only toons.

._. How dreadfully boring! I want to add more options for both PvPers (that being more weapons) and PvErs (that being more skills available from the outset), and only remove the armor swapping/ 30 weapon advantage.

shadowfell · Jul 12, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Simple solution to it.
PvE toon steps in to PvP arena= bam... 1.5k armor goes on automatic, greens are locked, nerfed or special (non pvp weps)looked,
There you are a PvP toon on level playing field.
All weapons have the basic mod's availeble to pvp only toons.

And then the bugs like in dragon arena happen, faces change, people lost their long time pets.. or it's worse, and people lose armors permanently, items are deleted, characters with 1500 hours who started off as a hot ele, suddenly look like broom hilda the stone age stoner because of a bug that manages to change the face of your character because of poor server parsing.. It would really hit the fan then

And.. what is wrong with customization.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_L

I already addressed this. Again, PvP characters cannot use weapons from storage as it requires customization in order to be able to compete. The whole idea is to prevent the concept of being forced to extensively "grind" in pve to be competetive in pvp. Even if PvP chars could customize/reroll and use the same weapons/armor, you are still forcing them to obtain these items through PvE. It just doesn't make any sense.

Last I checked... Pve couldn't reroll and still use their customized weapons and armors either. All of my warriors axes/swords/hammers are customized to her. It really is a requirement in a lot of guilds too. So, again, how is this an issue?